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Monday, 24 February 2014

Re: English Independence gaining traction!


           Re: English Independence gaining traction!

The Independence campaign has moved on and up, now  that one of the leading English intellectuals, Prof Roger Scruton, has come out for English Independence. 


Click here>>>http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/pov .

Here is a transcript of what Prof. Scruton said:-

"In all the complex changes leading to the Scottish bid for independence the English have never been consulted. The process has been conducted as though we had no right to an opinion in the matter. It was all about Scotland and how to respond to Scottish nationalism.

As an Englishman I naturally ask why my interests in the matter have never been taken in to account. When the Czechs and Slovaks achieved their amicable divorce it was by mutual agreement between elected politicians. What is so different about Scotland that it decides everything for itself.

The Union of England and Scotland was formerly declared in the Act of Union in 1707 but it had been an emerging reality throughout the preceding century. In the conditions and conflicts of those days it was impossible for the two nations to regard themselves as fundamentally distinct. They shared an island, a religion, a language and a Monarch and both had its vows to the protestant cause. It is true there was a border between them and things one side of the border were not always replicated on the other. Scots law remains a separate system from the English. Styles of dress, architecture, popular entertainment and speech were for a long time quite distinct, in part because of the striking difference in climate and since the Reformation organised religion has taken a very different form in the two countries. The lowland Scots opting for the Calvinist and Presbyterian version and remaining largely hostile to the elaborate episcopal offices that appeal to the English. But the differences were less important than the history and geography that held the two nations together. It is true that the Union was resented by the Highlanders, many of whom had retained their Catholic faith, their Gallic language and their loyalty to the deposed Stuart Kings. The cruel suppression of the Jacobite rebellions, the forbidding of the tartan, the persecution of the Catholics and the expulsion of the crofters from their homes, all these things are well known and don’t cast credit, either on the English or on the Lowlanders, who principally benefitted from the Union.

Nevertheless during the years of Empire building merchants from both countries combined to reap the benefits of British naval power and to explore the far corners of the earth in search of profit and in their wake they brought the imperial government that they shared. Moreover empire building had to be backed up by military force. The Napoleonic wars sealed the Union between the Scots and the English who happily adopted Great Britain as the name of their united country.

Neither people could have survived the wars of the 20th Century had they not fought side by side and with total commitment to the Union. As a result of those wars however, the Empire was lost and an entirely new political landscape emerged from beneath the smoke. It is no longer possible for us to see the Union as it was seen throughout the course of the 19th Century as something natural and unquestionable. The enterprise that joined us has vanished. So too we hope have the military threats. Each nation is, for the time-being at least, wrapped in its own internal problems.

It can be said that the Scots are still reeling from the effect of Margaret Thatcher’s radical economic policies and her introduction of the Poll Tax. They are bound to ask themselves whether they have had a fair share of the prosperity that is visible nearly everywhere in the south of England and the English tend to blame the migrations that threaten to overwhelm them on a succession of Labour Governments by allowing mass immigration into England and refusing to confront the European Union’s commitment to the free movement of peoples.

The Governments of Blair and Brown seriously undermined the English sense of identity. At the same time through the creation of a Scottish Parliament they gave a new identity to the Scots. The effect of the Scottish Parliament however, was not only to ensure the Scots would govern themselves, but also to make it more likely that they would continue to govern the English. The Labour Party did not want to lose those Scottish MPs, since it was thanks to them and the Scottish vote that the Labour Party had achieved such a large majority in Westminster. Scots were disproportionately represented in the cabinets of both Blair and Brown. Tony Blair owed his position in the Labour hierarchy in part to the networks that had grown in that country. Elections to the Scottish Parliament showed that the Scots had shifted their allegiance from Labour to the SNP, but they still want the English to be governed by the Labour Party. Hence they vote to place Labour politicians, who they don’t particularly want at home, in Westminster.

As a result of this the English, who have voted Conservative more often than Labour in all post-war elections have to accept a block vote of Labour Members of Parliament sent to Westminster by the Scots. The process that brought this about was one which the Scots themselves were given the final say in a referendum from which the English were excluded. In other words the process of devolution has an air of gerrymandering. The effect of which has been to secure a Labour bias in the Westminster Parliament while allowing the Scots to govern themselves in whatever way they choose. And the process continues. In response to Alex Salmond’s bid for independence the people of Scotland have been granted another referendum, but again the people of England have been deprived of a say. Why is this? Are we part of the Union or not? Or are the politicians afraid that we would vote the wrong way? And what is the wrong way? What way should we English vote, given that the present arrangement gives two votes to the Scots for every vote given to the English. Should we not vote for our independence given that we risk being governed from a country that already regulates its own affairs and has no clear commitment to ours?

The Scottish economy is subsidised by the English, but this does not mean that England would be better off without Scotland. You give subsidies to your dependents because you depend on them. Subsidies are also investments which have returns in the long run but they more than justify the cost. On the other hand it could be that the Scottish economy has suffered from the Union overall. Boswell attributes to Dr Johnson the remark that “the noblest prospect that a Scotsman ever sees is the high road that leads him to England”. Johnson’s purpose was to ridicule the romantic adulation of the Scottish landscape which was all the rage at the time, except perhaps among those that have to live there. But he touched without intending it on the principle cause of Scotland’s economic problems which is the loss of human capital. Educated Scots have constantly taken Dr Johnson’s high road to England, carrying with them their knowledge and their energy and investing it outside the borders of their homeland. In just the way that the EU is syphoning away the young middle class from Poland and the Czech Republic so that our union served to deprive the Scots of some of the people that their economy most needs.

The security that we have enjoyed in Europe since the collapse of the Soviet Union has brought with it a certain complacency in the matter of Defence. During the Cold War the Scottish land mass was absolutely fundamental to our strategy and our nuclear deterrent is housed in Scottish waters. And the Scottish air bases were constantly called upon to deter Soviet violations in our air space. Scottish regiments are at the forefront of our campaigns today and without them we would be much less capable of defending ourselves in a serious crisis.

In my opinion defence is the sole reason for thinking that the break-up of the Union might be bad for both our countries. The Union would have to replaced by a strong and committed alliance but I think this would happen just as the colonial administration of America transformed itself in time into the Western Alliance which brings the British and the Americans together and fighting side by side in every major crisis.


Suppose then we English were finally allowed a say in the matter. Which way would I vote? I have no doubt about it. I would vote for English independence as a step towards strengthening the friendship between our countries. It was thanks to independence that the Americans were able at last to confess to their attachment to the old country and to come to our aid in two World Wars. Independence is what real friendship requires and the same is true for those like the Scots and English who live side by side."

23 comments:

  1. Nice to read this from Roger Scruton. It is time to lure him away from the Conservative Party. Couldn't you go and have a little word with him Robin? His multicultural credentials are sadly lacking as he said a few years ago that multiculturalism like communism will fail as it is against human nature. We all know this and the time of a showdown against it is getting close. In fact, it is a form of communism anyhow, or marxism, and the EU which is combining with the United Nations to further it is a form of totalitarian socialism. We are now being watched electronically and from the skies just as the Soviet block were so welcome to 1984; and any comment against the multicultural agenda will lose you your job or worse have you arrested. Meanwhile, they press on, re-writing history to square the circle. I see in the series on the Three Musketeers on BBC 1 that we have black men in 17th Century France. If they were there then they would surely have been there merely as servants. Perhaps somebody will correct me but it seems like another demand by the Marxists for the willing suspension of disbelief, as in the recent series about Robin Hood.

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    1. With his views, there is no place for Roger Scruton in the Conservative Party. His real home has to be with the English Democrats

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  2. Looking outside these islands, it seems that the US and the EU have now achieved their aim of bringing about regime change in the Ukraine and probably splitting the country in two as the EU's expansion comes up against Russian rock.

    Unfortunately for those who want to loot the Ukraine, the eastern part of the country which does not want to have any part in "European integration" is the part where the best farm land and all the industry lies.

    A lady being interviewed in Kharkov in the east said she did not want to be part of a Brussels dictatorship, she wanted to be free, don't we all?
    But the evil empire rolls on to the benefit of communists like Barrosso and Merkel and big banks and big business. According to Max Keiser on Russia Today, the former are now buying up the latter so that in essence it will be world domination by big banks, what Max calls financial fascism.

    I expect they will tell us that if what is left of the Ukraine - I don't understand why they don't shove the Polish west back into Poland - joins the EU then only a few hundred will be coming here looking for work. No it will be thousands and thousands of Slavs/Slaves, cheap labour for the plutocrats.

    I heard a lady say today that the English aren't able to buy anything. I think she may have been wanting to buy a house in London but is outbid by foreigners who may not even live in the houses they are buying. She said that in Japan foreigners cannot buy houses or anything. On Russia Today we saw that foreigners are buying mansions in Hampstead and leaving them empty waiting for the price to go up. One was an ex-Pakistani minister. I bet most of them aren't the most honest people.

    George Osborne has told the Ukraine that their will be financial aid to help them. That means that the likes of Goldmann Sachs will now be free to go and bleed them dry and leave them in debt as in Greece and now France.

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    1. If you want to understand the Ukraine situation, read George Orwell's 1984. Oceania is encroaching on Eurasia.

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  3. If you really want us out of the EU , you would back the more successful UKIP. Their policies like yours don't matter Getting us out of the EU does. If you want to do some real good support the English Constituion Group's legal challenge which shows that all the EU treaties are illegal.This party and Mike Natrasse's party will just split the vote. It seems you put your own status above what is right for the country.United we stand divided we all will fail.You can all pl;ay politics after we leave the EU

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    1. Ukip does not stand a chance of taking a group of countries called the United Kingdom out of the EU. Get real.

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  4. What is the point of going your own way. None of your policies will be achieved until we leave the EU. You and Mike Natrass should get behind UKIP. Their policies are no better but they are way ahead of you both. The time to play politics is when we are out of Europe.Personalities matter a lot less than what is right for the country.Can you be big enough to put your small differences aside.
    If you really want to help support the English Constitution Group who have started a legal case to prove that the EU treaties are illegal. Farage you and Natrass have not got the bottle to support the group. Seems to me your all full of yourselves.GET US OUT OF EU

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    1. We see your sort in the independence campaign in Scotland, SNP/Yes (Same thing) cybernats telling anyone with an alternative view of an independent scotland to shut up, give up their principles and fight for something they dont believe is right. For those of us with a conscience we just cant do that. They also use the accusation "splitting the vote" which is absolute nonsense we are both working for a yes vote.

      I dont understand why anyone who wants freedom for England would work with UKIP, they dont appear to admit that England even exists and have no intention of giving England its own Parliament.

      Seems to me your just a cyber UKIP'er here to have a go in the hope of directing folk to your own ranks, i hope it doesnt work.

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    2. The English Democrats are the only party calling for English independence. Is the English Constitution Group calling for English independence? - I doubt it.
      Until England is once more a sovereign country, there will be no getting out of the EU.

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  5. My comment would be visible but for censorship.

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    1. Excuse me, but to what "censorship" do you refer?

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  6. Prof Scruton had his academic career sabotaged because of his conservatism, both big and little c. His books are very lucid and as this posting proves is an English nationalist at heart ..He has a very dry and wicked sense of humour too, which is particularly amusing when unleashed on our transatlantic cousins.

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  7. Dear Robin
    a very interesting essay on England, the union has always been contested by some, as Queen Anne had place men n the Scottish parliament, so that the treaty went through, the thing that is interesting with England, is that it is a two tier system, we see this with the armed forces where the men! are treated so differently from the officers, this was caused by the Norman invasion, where it became a them and us which is very much in English society today, we do not have a true democracy what we have is two warring tribes, who will do virtually anything to disrupt the other party, even bankrupt the country with no conscience at all, so in England one of the first things we need to do is work together, and for myself the best example of this was in the reign of King Alfred the Great, who brought this country through perilous dangers together.
    This is the one thing we need to do before we can do anything, because otherwise someone will destroy our unity for their own gain! Cromwell worked with unity to create the `Ironsides` who won the civil war, and Churchill after a false start and so would have Enoch Powell, but by then we had too many people in power! who did not wish this to happen and we see the consequence of their action today, we as English could still do this, as the English have always worked with other people/tribes under the English name.
    regards
    Stephen (Bennett)

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  8. "Suppose the English were...allowed". That's the problem. We're not. "The process has been conducted as though we had no right to an opinion in the matter". Why have your opinions in this matter, never been taken into account? Because, in the eyes of the British ruling class, you don't exist. "There is no such nationality as 'English'". (John "I'll never accept a peerage" Prescott.)
    I encounter only apathy amongst English people to whom I speak. Nobody cares, and I have run out of ways to try to make them care.
    They're all listening to the buffoon called Farage.
    I need inspiration. I can see the righteousness of our cause. I struggle to persuade others.
    p.s.
    Did the investment in North Sea oil and gas come from Scotland? I suspect not. So the mere fact that they are landed in Aberdeen, does not make them Scottish property.
    Clive.
    Weston-super-Mare.

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    1. The investment in North sea oil came from Oil Companies, westminster just stood with its hand out waiting for the billions to roll in. Oil is 90% Scottish because it lies in Scotland's territorial Waters and no amount of hokey line drawing on a map with a biro changes that.

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    2. Oh, I see! So a resource that currently belongs to all of us can, on the vote of a tiny minority be confiscated by that minority, by virtue only of its proximity to that minority's shores and the majority from whom it is to be confiscated get no say. Sounds democratic, to me.
      And when "Westminster" held out its hand, waiting for the billions to roll in, did it just stuff said billions into its back pocket?
      Have you forgotten about the billions in Barnett Formula subsidies that your people enjoy?
      In my country, youngsters pay twenty-seven thousand pounds to go to university. How much is it in yours? Thank the Barnett Formula and the English taxpayer.
      A bit like the debt, there should be equitable distribution; (although the Scottish Chief Secretary to the Treasury has undertaken that England will pick up the entire tab if push comes to shove). Or to put it another way, he has licensed his people to repudiate the debt if they don't get everything they want.
      Clive,
      Weston-super-Mare.

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    3. Clive, If you think that the oil under the North Sea belongs to us all, you are sadly mistaken. The UK government has seen to that.

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  9. Watching Mr Luzi Stamm of the Swiss People's Party on Sophie and Co on Russia Today last night I discovered a number of new facts. Firstly, the majority of French now want out of the EU so they who with the Germans began the Union may pull it all down. Secondly, we already have 100,000 Romanians here, enought to populate a city the size of Oxford which is truly staggering. Thirdly, according to Sophie, the EU is officially multiculturalist.

    Mr Stamm pointed out that mass immigration, both here and in the US, has merely served to drive down all wages, except for the plutocratic and political elite who are behind the whole idea. He said that too many, especially non-europeans, were being allowed in to allow integration.
    There were Swiss who would do the dirty jobs but they needed a proper wage. The Swiss would train their own doctors but those in power were choosing to import the cheaper option. If immigration in Switzerland were restricted anyhow to the best qualified then it would be a mere trickle not the equivalent of 10m entering the EU each year. That would be 1.25m a year into the UK.

    He was wary about speaking about the EU as his country is not a member but said that the one size fits all idea, in terms of currency, laws, immigration control etc was unworkable and was causing tremendous problems. Both the financial fascists, as Max Keiser calls them and the Marxist elite seem to want to turn Europe into the United States of Europe in a mirror image of the US, which will soon collapse and is always riven by ethnic and cultural tensions. Churchill in a knee-jerk reaction to two world wars was calling for this; but it is a much too simplistic solution. America, after native American genocide, was a blank canvass for European expansion. Europe is a continent of differing ethnicities, cultures, communities and nations going back thousands of years. Plus, whoever, asked Europeans if they wanted another US in their continent? Those Europeans who want to live in the US are free to go. Most do not and were quite happy with their countries the way they were, relatively peaceful and homogeneous. Something needed to be done in 1945 to weld European nations together to ensure their was jaw jaw not war war but another unwieldy megastate was not the answer.

    Mr Stamm said that small nations are much more easy to control and do not tend to dominate. Germany was not a problem before unification, France was and the United States is just running rampant over the globe bringing about regime change to suit its own ends. Small nations do form coalitions as they did in the past but there is no reason for a return to the 18th century.

    All in all Mr Stamm talked infinite common sense. But common sense has been the one thing that has been lacking since 1945. Europe has been hijacked by infantile utopianist Marxists who, along with the kleptocrats, are bent on the destruction of national identities, no matter what the citizens of those individual nations think. The masses now are utterly powerless to change anything faced with these bullies and it is down to the few to keep fighting. But they will win in the end.

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  10. Clive, The reason the people you speak to listen to the buffoon called Farage is that they are living in true blue Weston-super-Mare in the effete south of the country. The North is where you find folk who are not apathetic about being English

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  11. I am returning to the problem of apathy and powerlessness. Something happened to the English psyche when Enoch Powell, although of Wesh descent, was summarily dismissed from office from applying logic and common sense and speaking up for them. It was as if his dismissal was "pour decourager les autres". From that point on they were totally leaderless and all the political power was ranged against them. As I have said before I am convinced that Powell was aware of the future nature of the then EEC, as Heath must have been, a multicultural United States of Europe. He saw an end to and a reversal of mass immigration as the first means of halting this as he knew that the then English people would still be cohesive and powerful enough to do so. Their subsequent gross dilution has left them unable to unite, which was the plan.In Whitechapel anti-sharia patrols are out to confront the sharia enforcement controls and the Muslims are complaining that they are being so targeted by police surveillance that it is like a police state. It is for us all thanks to multiculturalism; perhaps they should consider seeking the freedom of their homelands. Yes, of course you were right Enoch.

    This powerlessness was brought starkly to the fore by the programme about the weakening of the planning laws on BBC2 last night. Griff Rhys-Jones has called this a developer's charter and it must be the reason why our 2,000-year-old capital has been subject to wholesale architectural butchery which would not be allowed elsewhere in Europe so that the result is more like Los Angeles. The programme ended with the decision of the council at Ellesmere Port to allow a 1500 home development on the last remaining piece of green belt. The council was to some extent in a cleft stick as if their refusal had been overturned at appeal, which undoubtedly would have been the case, then it would have suffered financial penalities. They were castigated by one brave councillor for their lack of courage. This is probably about to happen near to us here where the whole village and council were opposed but the decision was overturned on appeal so the council will be fined.

    What we are now seeing is a form of financial totalitarianism wedded to the totalitarianism that the Left has imposed on Europe. Max Keiser on Russia Today has described it as financial terrorism or financial fascism. There was no mention of the "i" word but only that there is a housing shortage. What can you expect when you allow in 100,000 Romanians in three months as cheap labour, let alone the Bulgarians and other immigrants coming in at the same time. This planning business should be something that the EDs should run with as it probably relates to mostly rural areas where the inhabitants are for the most part still English. The EDs should point out that David Cameron will never allow us to leave the EU as free movement of labour will mean a permanent housing shortage to benefit the developers who will then pour their profits into Conservative party funds. The country is now awash with political corruption.

    Beyond these shores the situation in the Ukraine goes from bad to worse with Neo-nazis seizing power in Kiev and the resurgence of anti-semitism whilst the country is on the verge of civil war. Some in the EU have realised that their expansionist plans have come unstuck but the EU is proposing to lend them 20b euros, money which Greece and Spain are clamouring for. That money will have to be repaid and the Ukraine is already virtually bankrupt so a Greek style austerity package awaits the Ukrainians, designed only to benefit the bankers. I expect that we will be contributing through our taxes whilst we are to lose are bus subsidy here and our buses leaving many stranded, despite the fact that we can pay out billions for a high speed rail line that nobody wants. There's another one to run with, Robin. Still the way things are going there will be no rural areas left so no need to worry about rural bus services.

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    1. Why has the government used the 'War Veto' to suppress the results of the report on HS2 which it commissioned from the Major Projects Authority?

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    2. Probably for the same reason that the City controlled government threatend Iceland with the terrorism act for refusing to pay the bankers. Max Keiser calls it financial fascism, to me it is like financial communism, diktats on the behalf or the City of London are just that and cannot be countermanded as for the case of houses imposed on us by central government. There is no longer any democracy just financial totalitarianism. Well done to Iceland for resisting, if only more countries, especially those in Southern Europe, had the courage. The threat to Iceland made me deeply ashamed of being English; but as I have already posted, the City of London is totally alien, being a Dutch foundation, to the principles of any true Englishman. Most Englishmen are not purely governed by greed, only the British ruling elite.

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    3. Totally agree. The British establishment has always been the problem; us English are just a bunch of useful idiots in their eyes.

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