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Wednesday, 28 August 2013

The case for a policy of Independence for England

At our Conference and AGM on the 21st September 2013 in Leicester the English Democrats will be debating the following resolution:-

“The English Democrats believe that England should again be an independent nation state and we will campaign to that end.
The English Democrats demand that a referendum be held for the People of England to decide whether England should become independent again and cede from the United Kingdom and the European Union.”

Here is the accompanying paper in support. What do you think?

The case for a policy of Independence for England

By Derek Hilling and Leon Martin

After more than a decade since the advent of devolution within the United Kingdom, the British government refuses to recognise the legitimate concerns of the people of England regarding the unfairness of the devolution settlement. In that period nothing whatsoever has been done to address the concerns of the English, who believe that they are paying for yet receiving none of the benefits of devolution. The main political parties refuse to even discuss these concerns and some of their leaders even deny the very existence of England as a separate nation. In light of this outright intransigence the English Democrats believe that the time has come to promote the cause and principles of English Independence. This means that England should break-away from the United Kingdom, and once again become an independent nation state.

The English Democrats are calling for a referendum on this matter so that the people of England may be given a choice to determine their own future.

The English Democrats start from the basic principle that the English Nation is entitled to self-determination and its people are entitled to citizenship of that nation. England’s membership of the United Kingdom denies us expression of these entitlements.

The leaders of all the main political parties conspired to create devolution for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, but did nothing to offer the same rights to the people of England.

The consequence of devolution has been that the people of England now suffer from unfair distribution of the resources of the United Kingdom. We pay more than our fair share of taxes but receive less than our fair share of the resources. It is clear that this injustice will never be righted until the people of England break-free from the shackles of the United Kingdom.

The benefits of England becoming are independent country are that:

An immediate cessation of England’s membership of the European Union , saving £billions in contributions;

English business would be free from the E.U.’s bureaucratic red tape;

England would regain control over our own borders, ending the unchecked immigration that the E.U. has fostered;

English People would be able to promote their historic culture and identity which has been denied them by the British state;

We would promote an English cultural renaissance and give our people a sense of pride in who they are and what they have achieved;

English customs and manners are valued as part and parcel of the fabric of our culture and could be promoted as the public culture of England;

England would be free from the need to subsidise both the rest of the UK as well as large parts of Europe;

England could broaden its trading relations with all countries, especially the emerging economies in Latin America and Asia; we have become too reliant on Europe which is in the grip of economic paralysis.

If the people of England decide that we should become independent, then an English Government would be formed so as to conduct negotiations with the Scottish Government and the Welsh and Northern Irish Assemblies, as to the division of the debts of the United Kingdom. England cannot be expected to go on forever subsidising those who cannot pay their own way.

We believe that the best way for the people of England to improve their living standards and achieve the national unity and social cohesion that we all want is for England to become an independent nation. The English Democrats are convinced that a free and independent England will be able to rid itself of the scourge of debt and release the talents of its people to create a strong and vibrant econom


  1. The case for independence would put the English Democrats on the same footing as most nationalist parties, which normally seek independence for their people. Sovereign independent England would be more viable than many other countries and wealthier once it was free of the peripheral countries which hold us back. This policy would certainly wrong foot the unionist parties.

  2. "English People would be able to promote their historic culture and identity which has been denied them by the British [Norman] state;
    We would promote an English cultural renaissance and give our people a sense of pride in who they are and what they have achieved" - Quoted from Derek Hilling's and Leon Martin's supporting paper supporting the 'Road To English Independence' proposition to be voted on at the English Democrats' annual conference in September.

    The soul of a nation is in its speech. When we have our freedom, the English must bring into being a truly English tongue instead of the worldwide mongrel mishmash we now have to speak.
    See David Cowley's book - 'How We'd Talk if the English had won in 1066'

  3. We can't be said to have had runaway success with our English Parliament policy, but that could be because The English have been hoodwinked into believeing that the (British) Westminster Parliament IS the English Parliament. After all, it has no influence anywhere other than England!
    The British political elite won't even SAY "England" - they say "parts of the U.K., or, "the rest of the U.K.". Some years ago, the Scottish National Party top-brass were trying to sell the notion that "Independence for Scotland will mean independence for England." Now THEY are referring to "the rest of the U.K.", and make no mention of England.
    There is a nefarious agenda which in all likelihood has to do with proposals for a future "United States of Europe" to which an English nation is seen as a threat.
    This shift from English Parliament to English Independence has to be the right approach.

  4. The English kould show their kloseness to kindred nations such as the Norwegians, Danes and Dutch by using 'k' for hard 'c'. Even more English would be to use ðe English letter 'thet' (Ð, ð) for 'th'.

  5. Perhaps independent England can get rid of the Orwellian tendency which has developed under the current government where 'down' means 'up', e.g., 'immigration down' in government speak means 'immigration up' and 'national debt down' means 'national debt up'.

  6. "How wonderful to see London and now Birmingham becoming multi-ethnic cities" - Dame Shirley Williams

  7. "Treaties are dead hands laid upon nations". "The essential thing about nations is that they grow from below". "Democracy ends when we find ourselves governed not by us, but by them". "Nations have common legal and education systems". - Roger Scruton (the UK was the result of a treaty), (Scotland and England have separate legal and education systems).
    Dr Scruton should welcome the re-emergence of England as a nation state.

  8. "Ðe English People would be able to promote ðeir historik kulture and identity which has been denied ðem by ðe British [Norman] state;
    We would promote an English kultural renaissance and give our people a sense of pride in who ðey are and what ðey have achieved" - kwoted from Derek Hilling's and Leon Martin's paper supporting 'Ðe Road To English Independence' proposition to be voted on at ðe English Democrats' annual konference in September, demonstrating ðe use of ðe English letter 'thet' (ð, Ð).

  9. Unfortunately Roger Scruton is still a member of the conservative party. he believes that the essential conservative instinct of the traditional past can be re introduced into the corpse of that beast that roams parliament now . It is a real pity as Dr Scruton is a patriot, traditional conservative and liberal, in the classical sense, with a vast knowledge and intellect at his disposal.

    1. If Scruton has a vast intellect at his disposal, he must recognise that his membership of the Conservative (and Unionist) party is in contradiction to his 'realist' (in the political sense) view that the nation is everything, and that the nation state is all important.
      Perhaps the existence of the English Democrats should be drawn to Dr Scruton's attention.

    2. Roger Scruton's membership of the Conservative Party is not compatible with his well known Euroscepticism.
      Even if he is unaware of the English Democrats, why has his intellect not led to him to resign from the Tory Party, which is a UK and an ("ever closer") EU unionist party?

  10. The following quote should cheer the English Democrats in the North and the Midlands, where Ukip might have blocked the ED's advance in the EDs' target seats.
    A vote in favour of English independence at the EDs' annual conference will highlight the biggest contradictions in Ukip's aims.

    "How come that Farage’s party is now so disliked?

    One of the big problems with polling is that what tends to get reported is what fits the media narrative and other numbers can get ignored.
    Thus the latest numbers from the firm [Ipsos - MORI, Tuesday August 27th 2013] about UKIP are interesting from a General Election 2015 forecasting perspective.
    The survey found that 52% of the sample did not like Farage’s party with 25% saying they did – a net of minus 27%. The Tories, by comparison, had 57% not liking with 38% liking – a net of minus 19%. The LD figures were 43% like to 47% dislike while Labour was 49% “like” to 43% “dislike”.
    For a party that been surging so fast to be so disliked comes as something of a shock. It suggests that UKIP support won’t be expanding at the same rate as has been experienced in the past year and, indeed, that we might have seen what the ceiling is for now.
    Ipsos-MORI party “like/dislike” ratings proved to be one of the indicators that the CON-LAB gap was closing in the final stage of the GE2010 campaign.
    The big test for UKIP in the coming nine months will be next May’s elections for the EU parliament. They are still favourites to win most votes but are no longer odds on."

    Mike Smithson

  11. This analysis from CityA.M. shows why the English Democrats are right to target the northern working class (who are more likely to identify themselves as English) rather than the southern middle class (who are more likely to identify themselves as British).


    Although little is known about how it could compete in a general election, Ukip could clearly be very dangerous to the Conservatives. Much of its recent rise in the polls has come from ex-Tories (though Labour and the Lib Dems have also lost voters to the newest force in British politics). It is the party most dissatisfied with the government, David Cameron and the other party leaders. While 47 per cent of Tories think Nigel Farage is doing a good job, only 12 per cent of Ukip supporters say the same about Cameron. Around six in ten Ukip supporters are over 55; older people are far more likely to vote, and form much of the bedrock of Tory support. Likewise, Ukip supporters tend to come from Tory heartlands, especially in the Midlands and the South. Immigration – now the second most important issue for Britons – is traditionally an area of strength with Tory voters, but now almost as many people trust Farage on the issue.
    Tom Mludzinski is deputy head of political research at Ipsos MORI.


    The reason Labour should worry most about the rise of Ukip is simple: survey evidence consistently shows that Ukip’s appeal resonates most strongly with traditional “Old Labour” voters. It appeals to older, less skilled, blue collar men far more than to the young, highly-skilled middle classes. As the party has surged in the polls, these social divisions in Ukip’s support have grown ever wider. The impact this has had on Labour is clear already, when we look at the ground Labour has recovered since its low ebb in 2009. Labour’s popularity among the under 35s, university graduates and middle class professionals has surged, but the party has seen next to no recovery in its polling with working class voters or men, and it has gone backwards with pensioners. If this pattern persists, it will pose serious problems for Ed Miliband and his party over the next two years.
    Dr Robert Ford is a lecturer at the University of Manchester. His book with Matthew Goodwin, Revolt on the Right, will be published in 2014. - See more at:

    1. "Immigration – NOW THE SECOND MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE FOR BRITONS – is traditionally an area of strength with Tory voters, but now ALMOST as many people trust Farage on the issue".
      It is strange that voters trust the Tories on the issue given their record of failure to tackle immigration and the lies they tell about being sceptical about the EU and the free movement of labour within the EU's borders.
      Immigration is an area where the EDs' could rally support against the duplicitous Tories

    2. "Which party has the best approach to immigration?

      In our poll 31% said the Conservatives had the best approach to immigration, ahead of UKIP on 24% and Labour on 23%. Only 7% named the Lib Dems and 14% said another party. More than three quarters (77%) of Conservative defectors to UKIP said the Tories had the best approach to immigration, compared to just 14% who named UKIP. 40% of the Universal Hostility segment said UKIP had the best policy, followed by 22% for another party, 19% for Labour and 16% for the Conservatives.
      In the Cultural Concerns and Fighting for Entitlements segments UKIP and the Tories were neck and neck, while the Conservatives had a 5-­‐point lead over Labour in the Urban Harmony group. Labour had a clear lead in the Militantly Multicultural
      Lord Ashcroft polls

      The EDs need to take on that 31% belief that the Tories have the best approach to immigration

    3. "The Conservative Party has a north of England problem", David Skelton, 'Conservative Renewal Campaign'.
      Q: "Why won't you vote Conservative?" A: "Geography, I'm a northerner".
      Professor Tim Bale, "Because of the support for the smaller parties the Tories are struggling in the north, they need to pick up votes in the north". There is only one Tory MP in the North East. The Conservative brand is identified with unemployment.
      The English Democrats have the opportunity to become THE alternative to Labour in the north of England.

  12. Independent England will be able to exercise more effectively soft power in the world once it is shot of the burden of the history of the British Empire.

  13. I wonder if anybody else saw Alistair Salmond being interviewed on Russia Today. He still thinks he can swing Scottish voters to vote yes in the way his party has come from nothing to rule Scotland. He then sees Scotland as being like Norway and Sweden a small peace broker nation with no military importance. Perhaps this is why there is to be the big to-do in Sterling to stir the aggressive Scots against such a role.

    Shirley Williams is a well meaning but dotty woman. She has ruined our eduction system by importing everything American and hence is another heir to the French Revolution which has finally reached us via America. I assume she is looking forward to a white minority there where she spent the war years - and here too. I think she might be in for a few surprises.

    Both Britain and America have been engulfed by the French Revolution's civic nationalist multicultural ethos. America is now in decline as President Assad has said because it is broke and sick of its regime changing wars.
    Britain will follow whilst homogeneous Russia and China will forge ahead.

    Russia is aware of what is happening to the West and is not happy with it. Russia Today is constantly pointing out the frictions caused by multiculturalism and Islam in Britain. Recently, it spoke to Mr mosque buster, Gavin Boby, who now appears to be Mr Islam buster and pointed out that 60% of "white native British" are now opposed to islamification. RT went further to suggest that opposition to multiculturalism is equally strong and that the policy that was imposed on us and the rest of Western Europe has now reached its high water mark. It think the results of the 2011 census sent shock waves through England even though the English were not allowed to comment publically.

    I recently heard a lady saying that there was still quite a bit of segregation where she lived but that the races are being forced to work together which she thought was good. I thought she lived in South Africa but it turned out to be Reading. So if we don't want it we must be forced to try and make it work. We are at a high water mark and either the tide will be turned or we will be swept away forever by what has been referred to as the tsunami of immigration into hitherto white countries.

    As regards Roger Scruton, this coercion reminds me of his comment that multiculturalism will fail as communism failed because they both deny human nature. They are of course both branches of Marxism and the Russians know this and are trying to make us see sense. There was also an interview with the British head of the International Labour Organisation and the lady suggested to him that democracy might not always be the best system as China is managing fine without it. He disagreed but an elected pro-EU pro-multiculturalist dictatorship by the three parties which we have now is worse. He also concluded, reluctantly, by saying it would be best to invest in the countries of origin of immigrants so they could stay put.