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Wednesday, 14 August 2013

British nationalism - v - ENGLISH nationalism: 'threat to UK'?


Is ENGLISH nationalism a 'threat to UK'?

I am sometimes asked whether a person can be a British nationalist and also an English nationalist. I don't think so as he would then have divided loyalties and also no clear National Identity. I think this was made quite clear on the BBC a few years ago.

Back in 2000 Jack Straw and William Hague warned of growing English nationalism following devolution, airing their views in a BBC Radio 4 programme called "Brits".

The then Home Secretary, Jack Straw, said that the English had used their "propensity to violence to subjugate Ireland, Wales and Scotland".

Mr Straw described the English as "potentially very aggressive, very violent" and will "increasingly articulate their Englishness following devolution."

Also appearing on the programme was the then Conservative leader, William Hague, who is now the Coalition Government's Foreign Secretary.

Mr Hague said: "English nationalism is the most dangerous of all forms of nationalism that can arise within the United Kingdom, because England is five-sixths of the population of the UK."

"Once a part of a united country or kingdom that is so predominant in size becomes nationalistic, then really the whole thing is under threat," he will say.

Then the programme's producer, Martin Rosenbaum said: "For years people in Wales and Scotland have been thinking about their individual political identity but the English haven't.

"What we show is there is an English backlash but also self-doubt about England's identity.

"Jack Straw is worried that nationalism will manifest itself in violence and wants a positive English identity created which will beat off the unpleasant side."

"Many left wing politicians are frightened of the topic of nationalism because of its associations with the far right - but the issue needs to be discussed."
Click here for the original >>>

Now we would be able to tell Mr Rosenbaum that English Nationalism is waking up! And may well pose an increasing "threat" to the British Political and Media Establishment's self interested and self serving privileges! See what you think of this youtube clip >>>
Part of the Union?....


  1. The real problem is that the bulk of third world immigration has been into England thus diluting its national identity. What Hague and Straw feared was the emergence of ethnic nationalism as has been the case in Scotland and Wales where their immigrant populations, although growing, have been so small as to allow ethnic nationalism to triumph, despite the supposed desire of their nationalist parties for civic nationalism. As Ian Hislop dangerously opined the White British are now mainly confined to the celtic fringe. Witness the Eisteddfod and the pipe band.

    The problem with England is that ethnic nationalism is not allowed to assert itself because of the subsequent fear of friction here.
    So they keep it under wraps because they know that those from the third world do not share common ancestry, blood, history and culture with the natives so cannot really form part of the nation in its true sense, which according to Locke was people of shared blood and history.
    How do you reconcile the irreconcilible, a nation with 1500 plus years of European racial and cultural identity with peoples who are wholly alien by race and mostly by culture? This is why they dither. They are looking for a "positive English identity" which will somehow square the circle and disallow ethnic nationalism.

    As for Jack Straw, who does not share that history and blood, blaming the English for a propensity for violence in the way they subjugated Wales, Scotland and Ireland, all such subjugation was the work of the Normans and the Angevins, in essence not native English. The Normans subjugated the celtic nations in the same way that they had subjugated England. Had it not been for the Norman Invasion then the Anglo-Saxons would have probably left them alone.

    Somebody commented elsewhere on the desire for the Scottish government to give compulsory gaelic lessons to all Scots and that gaelic was only ever the language of the Highlands and Islands. On a recent visit to Galloway I discovered that gaelic was spoken there until comparitively recently and it is my understanding that after the battle of Nechtensmere when the Scots from Ulster defeated the Picts gaelic became the language of the whole nation until Norman French and then English/Scots took over. The kilt and the bagpipes eminated from north of the rift valley but are now part of Scottish culture from Kirkcudbright to Kirkwall

    1. Bagpipes are found all across Europe and much of the Middle East, while it seems that the pleated kilt was invented by an English iron master to protect his workers legs from molten iron splashes. I think his name might have been Wainwright.

    2. I agree totally with your comment and as we all know it is impossible to square the circle. People tend to forget - selectively - that the English were the first peoples of this land to be subjugated all those years ago, to which we are now paying the price. We have always been and always will be just useful idiots to the British establishment.

      What I constantly see around me, is, for me anyway, the inevitable consequence of an historically entrenched colonial mindset our British rulers seem to have. The establishment can no longer go out and pillage the world so the only option left for them is to look inwards and pillage their own country - which as we can see is being facilitated by mass third world immigration. What we are now seeing is the true death knell of our once great country. And for what? Greed, power and status.

      What is the end game? I have some idea, but ultimately, who knows?

      As a proud Englishman the establishment does not deserve and will not get my vote again. I'll be voting for you Robin, not on a whim, but for the deep love of my country.

    3. Well done for saying that the British/Norman establishment are still playing Empire. As I have said before, they have done to England what they used to do to countries that did not play ball all over the Empire, imported indentured labour mostly from the Indian sub-continent. Interestingly, I have discovered that we were not alone. We did it in Fiji and in Trinidad once the slaves were freed and did not want to work for us; the French did the same and for the same reason in the French Antilles.

      For the bus drivers of London this meant the arrival of the Windrush. For the textile workers of the north this meant Indians and Pakistanis, the same was true in Southall as late as the 1970s.

      For Fiji this was a total disaster as the native Fijians were soon outbred or outsmarted by the Indians who seized control of their island, hence the coup about 20 years ago. The same thing happened in Africa until the Asians were asked to leave. As I see it England is now just another Trinidad, Fiji or Kenya from their point of view.
      The question is, will it all end as in Uganda or heaven forfend as in Fiji?

      A local preacher asked on Sunday in her prayers that God prevent the overtaking of the world by evil which is down to greed and power. Enter Mr Cameron, whose family, I have just learnt acquired their fortune through the slave trade as many Scots did.

    4. It doesn't surprise me about Cameron's family at all. Scratch just beneath the surface and you will find high levels of Scottish involvement in many of the colonial embarrassments the English beat, or are made to beat themselves up about.

      The act of Union was a direct consequence of Scotland's failed colonial exploits, so you could say that the English are just useful idiots to the Norman/French Scots as well. I always find it interesting, don't you, that there are no overt signs of subjugation in Scotland like there are in England and Wales?

      Also, it always makes me chuckle when the Scots get their knickers in a twist about 'Scottish oil'. No, it's not Scottish it's British/Norman oil. They are now seeing the consequence of selling their soul to the devil. They are transfixed by the 'Anglo Saxon' thing, which as we all know is a complete red herring. I don't see any 'Anglo Saxon' signs of subjugation in any of our countries, do you?

      You have to hand it to the Norman elite, really: steal, assimilate and take the spoils. The Norman mindset/method is now going global like a viral pandemic. The rulers of the world in the future won't be white i suspect, but you can bet your bottom dollar that some at the head table will probably trace their ancestry back to Normandy.

      We all know that the 'Anglo Saxon'/English are a good people. The seams are starting to come apart and English nationalism will hopefully take down this invidious illusion called, 'Great Britain'. Good luck in the future, brother.

  2. I am more inclined to believe the director of the British Museum Neil MacGregor (although what he said was in the context of Edinburgh), than what you were told on a recent visit to Galloway. The language of Galloway was originally Cumbric British. Having said that, Galloway is only just across St Georges Chanel from originally Irish speaking Ulster and close to the Isle of Man where the Manx dialect of Irish was spoken until recent times.
    But you are right about the importance of restoring the English language and culture to restoring the English ethnic identity (or the importance of ethnic languages to all ethnic identity).

  3. Just as bagpipes may have originated in the Middle East, Moorish or Morris dancing may have originated in North Africa. In fact, it seems to bear a resemblance to the folk dancing of Scandinavia. However, apparently it came from what was Moorish Spain after the reconquista by Ferdinand and Isabella and spread throughout Europe in the 15th century so may have influenced Scandinavia as well, as it did Germany.

    How would a civic rather than an ethnic nationalism for England cope with customs and traditions like Morris dancing which are so much a part of English culture? Would they no longer be allowed to be a part of English nationalism? Or would we one day see blacks and Asians doing Morris dancing; and if they were to then would it not look odd? I remember seeing Pakistani children dressed in English 17th century costume; it somehow didn't wash. The fact that it is not part of their identity is the reason they stick to their own cultures. National identity is impossible to change without eradicating or replacing it which seems to be the goal of the United Nations in league with globalists of both the Marxist and capitalist variety. The more they use immigration to push the ethnic English back the more swiftly they eradicate an historic English national identity and English nationalism. Gordon Brown tried to redefine a British identity based on "shared values" and I think it came down in the end to the rule of law and parliamentary democracy, both of which are common to nearly every European country. I remember attending the carnival in Barnard Castle. The men and women from the Indian restaurant dressed up in Indian costume and played their own instruments, as if to say, we are Indians and this is what we do. I have heard of Indians married to English people who are bringing their children up as Christians and Hindus which must be very confusing for them. The distance between Christianity and Judaeism was not so great so that people could switch between the two, as did Disraeli and I believe Mendelsohn and Bruch. As Margaret Thatcher said when she tried or pretended to try to stop immigration from the Sub-continent, their cultures are too different. By the way I remember the final programme a few years ago of the Blood of the British series when they excitedly fused faces from all those living in Britain from the recent census and came up with the future Briton. He and she looked like inhabitants of the Indian sub-continent so this is the future they have planned for us. If this is to be our identity then perhaps theirs will be our culture too.

    You are right that Brythonic celtic was the language of the Strathclyde Britons from Athelstan's English border at Eamont Bridge to the banks of the Clyde. Indeed the kingdom was known as Rheged, now a tourist attraction near Penrith and there is a place called Dunragit near Stranraer, the fortress of Rheged. However, I have just checked this out and gaelic became the language of almost all of Scotland by the 12th century. Areas excluded were Lothian where Northumbria predominated from Northumberland to Edinburgh which is evidenced by Anglo-Saxon placenames, so Anglo-Saxon was spoken there; the northen isles where old Norse and gaelic were spoken and a wedge coming up from Cumbria to Glasgow where brythonic was still spoken. The Galwegians of Galloway spoke gaelic. It would seem that if Anglo-Saxon and presumbaly Norman French were spoken in or near Edinburgh then this is how gaelic ultimately declined and was replaced. Incidentally, the Stuarts were the descendants of Alan the Breton, the owner of Richmond Castle and one of the Conqueror's henchmen. So James the First was not really Scottish but a Norman - or a Breton descended from Alan if you like who would have spoken both Norman French and breton, a sister language to gaelic.

    1. and Robert the Bruce was really Robert de Brus.

    2. Correction - Breton is a cousin language to Irish (Goidelic/Gaelic); it is a sister language to Welsh (Brittonic/Brythonic)

    3. The Brus family were first established in Yorkshire.
      Robin Hood might have been another Robert de Brus.

  4. Would make a very good party political broadcast

  5. The White Dragon16 August 2013 at 09:11

    I've just had my DNA checked for my origins and I'm Anglo-Saxon or Danish Viking ( I imagine Jutish ) It is said that that the two groups lived closely together and it isn't possible to distinguish clearly between them. My name has been traced back to the NW of England in the early 12th C. Pity we can't get back any further. I'd like to be Saxon rather than Danish Viking. Just thought I'd thought I'd say.
    I am an English Nationalist. I'm not violent. I don't think its wrong to wish to mix with people who look like me, behave like me and share my cultural heritage.

    1. I am somebody who, from his surname eminating from an East Midlands Danelaw village, believes that he has Danish Viking dna but has yet to take the plunge. Who did you get your dna tested by as Professor Sykes in Oxford is now charging £200 a throw which is a bit steep. As regards the Danish Vikings and the Hiberno-Norse Vikings, as Enoch Powell said, because of their racial similarity, once Christianised they were allowed to settle and were rapidly assimilated.

      I have just read an interesting piece of research which has shown that in spite of Lola on C Beebies only one in ten children and adults have a close friend of another race in Britain; so further integration must be encouraged is the suggestion; not that perhaps the races self-segregate.

      I think that things are starting to come to a head promoted by the Traditional Britain Group furore and Jacob Rees-Mogg feeling constrained to say that any suggestion that mass immigration was a mistake and that multiculturalism doesn't work is truly awful. I have been told by a Chinese that the Chinese are opposed to mass immigration because they are already overcrowded, despite the fact that their population density is half what ours was in the 1950s. I seem to think that racial purity is their true motive, as with the Japanese and the Indians. As regards Mr Rees-Mogg he has obviously taken fright at the thought of the Tory whip being withdrawn from him.

    2. The White Dragon16 August 2013 at 18:55

      Go for it. I did use Professor Sykes at Oxford Ancestors.

    3. Sorry, I need to add further points that the Chinese gentleman made. Much of China is uninhabitable so that perhaps their population density is almost the same as ours was in the 1950s. Also, they have no economic reason for mass immigration i.e. enough cheap labour or rather they do not have employers who would rather employ cheap imports than the English at a decent wage. Mass immigration in the globalisation sense is all about suppressing indigenous wages; and now the Romanians are Bulgarians are arriving.

      Another point he made was that China, for security reasons, needs to keep a careful eye on who is coming into the country so only allows them in by dribs and drabs. He knows that Europe through mass immigration has lost total control of this.

      However, I think that the bottom line was that they do not want anything to endanger the prosperity of the Chinese and their integrity, prove a security threat especially if they are in such large number as to form foreign enclaves
      ( are they still restricted to the Bund in Shanghai?)or put a strain on their resources and infrastructure due to overpopulation. This is the sort of common sense attitude that most here would have adopted if they had been allowed to before mass immigration was allowed to take hold. But greedy globalising capital and the immature dreamers of the Left battered us into submission. My father said that China with the oldest civilisation would be the salvation of the West. Perhaps he was right.

    4. White Dragon, Your DNA analysis probably means you are an Angle, rather than a Saxon. The Jutes are thought to have been Danes of Gothic origin who settled at the mouth of the Rhine, before transferring to Kent and Hampshire. Coming from the NW makes it more likely that you are an Angle, since the Jutes didn't go there and neither did the Danish Vikings. The Vikings in the NW were Norwegians.

  6. I have just discovered that Hope not Hate and Searchlight were on the phone to Jacob even before he spoke. No doubt afterwards they reported him to Conservative Central Office as well as getting back on the phone to scare him witless and then tell the press about what he had done.

  7. It is obvious that English Nationalism is a threat to the UK - any fool know that.