It was interesting to hear that the Russian President, Vladamir Putin, has recently sought to compare Joseph Stalin with Oliver Cromwell.
(Here is a link to an article about this >>> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/vladimir-putin-soviet-leader-joseph-stalin-was-no-worse-than-oliver-cromwell-9016836.html).
At one level it goes to show that Mr Putin, understandably perhaps, knows not so much about the details of English history, but on another, there is a serious point that after the chaos of every revolution in history and the usual accompanying wild hopes for a better world, there has typically emerged a nasty dictator.
The striking differences between Oliver Cromwell and Joe Stalin (let alone the other Socialists like Lenin and Mao Tse Tung), is the fact that our devout evangelical Christian, Oliver Cromwell, not only refused the Crown of England which he was repeatedly offered, but also did not carry out mass murders and terror tactics unlike the 20th Century’s genocidal, Communist mass murderers.
Cromwell on the other hand sought to modernise the English government and had an important role in building the foundations of the very first modern nation state that is:- England.
Cromwell’s reforms set England and the English nation on the path, not only to the first industrial revolution, but world mercantile trade and indeed the largest empire the word has ever known.
Stalin on the other hand is directly implicated in the murder of up to 55 million people who were alleged to be class enemies (e.g. petit bourgeois) or who held heretical communist beliefs or who were ethnically inexpedient. In contrast however to the total physical cowardice displayed by Mao Tse Tung, Stalin did show personal courage and resolve as the German Army reached Moscow.
Also Stalin had two strokes of luck back in the Second World War. Churchill’s willingness to help him and Hitler’s greedy blunder in encouraging the Japanese to attack South rather than up into Siberia. Personally nevertheless I would suggest that Stalin is better compared with Genghis Khan!
So much for the comparison between Cromwell and Stalin! Happy New Year!
I take your point about an unfair comparison. Cromwell was however ruthless with the Irish. His single minded retribution against England's enemies show why he was such a good general. He suffered no enemy direct or mercenary without reprisal, the echoes of which we still feel today. His monument stands outside parliament not in it as a result of Irish antipathy and class repugnance.
ReplyDeleteThe article is perhaps part of a wider conspiracy against Putin to discredit him with any Western Europeans that will take heed. He is not popular with the liberal west as he is a staunch nationalist and Christian and has outwitted the Israeli/ American axis in the Middle East quite spectacularly recently. He imprisoned and dealt with some of the 'Russian' oligarchs who plundered the state assets for vast personal wealth. It was, let us hope an ill judged comparison rather than an indication of a deep English antipathy. If we could trade a Vladimir for a David any time soon then I would be a much happier chap.
I agree with the comments that Putin is being discredited by our "liberal" elites due to his nationalism and support for Christianity.
ReplyDeleteCromwell was not as ruthless as the lies and myths that come out about him. He gave his enemies options to peacefully surrender,unlike Stalin,Napolean or Franco
ReplyDeleteSeeing the late Historian Rupert Holmes on History TV who was adament of the UNTRUTHFULL slurs against Cromwell. Modern day Political Left voices make up lies and try and rewrite history. DONT BE FOOLED The TRUTH IS WELL WRITTEN in past History.
I agree with the first two comments, Putin is emerging as the saviour of European Christian civililisation; that is a Europe that existed before the banks and the multinationals and their left-wing useful idiots imposed a multicultural Soviet Union on Europe. Hopefully the Euro-elections will be their Stalingrad. You can't fault the Russians for their determination to defend their homeland. The Americans would never have had such guts.This probably is deliberate by the liberal European hating elites as Putin is there sticking up for the indigenous peoples of Europe, their cultures and their religion.
ReplyDeletePutin probably has rather a dodgy understanding of English history; but the Commonwealth was a rather joyless dictatorship. The churches were full for Russian Christmas yesterday which shows what happens when Marxism is finally defeated.
ReplyDeleteMaybe this is wrong, but one feels that English policy in Ireland was marred by the policy of not forcing the Wild Celtic Irish to take the Protestant religion and allowing them to remain as Roman Catholics.
ReplyDeleteAs far as one can see the attitude of the authorities at the time was that the Celtic Irish were not worth the trouble of converting to Protestantism. This was a calculated insult and one, which the English are still paying the price after all these centuries.
Graham
Without wishing to get into religious ‘Argy Bargy’ one does feel that the English Protestants and especially the Puritans, did not realise that sometimes the only thing that keeps a religion going in bad times is a bit of superstition and ritual.
ReplyDeleteThose self appointed zealots stripped England of its superstitions and rituals which they hated as being ungodly. Unfortunately, we are not all capable of living on the pinnacle of high-minded religious rhetoric.
It might be an idea for the ‘Eng Dems’ to sponsor some recreated and patriotic old rituals.
What about the bonfires on St Johns Eve, the midsummer’s days evening, or as near to that as makes no difference.
Many old rituals in the British Isles are reinventions despite the local’s claims about historical authenticity.
‘Up Helly aa’, (29th January), in the Orkney’s is a splendid example of a reinvented ancient custom and very successful at defining the Orkneyites patriotism.
All right, so this is a bit eccentric, but why not recapture a bit of history for England and invent a bit of old/new fun around about the time of Midsummer Eve. Give the English something to be proud about and have a bit of fun. At least the weather would be more favourable at that time of year.
Graham.
You are obviously an ignoramus who knows nothing about Cromwell. He was a murdering bastard who slaughtered tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children in Ireland. Or perhaps you think that they don't count since it wasn't innocent English people he slaughtered?
ReplyDeleteSorry Michael. It would appear that you have swallowed a lie wholesale. As the historian, Philip McKeiver, has conclusively shown that is a myth invented in the 18th century by a natioanlist orientated Catholic priest.
DeleteWell I've read plenty of history books that would contradict Mr McKeiver. And if there was no truth in it, why would Putin compare Stalin to Cromwell if Cromwell was the devout, humble Christian that you purport him to be? Google "Cromwell in Ireland" and see for yourself.
DeleteWhile I guess you were educated in England, I'm sure you got a very biased view of the history of the British Emipre and were not told of such atrocities commited by Cromwell. Nor were most English people were aware of what went on in India before the film Gandi was made. The British Empire was not created by handing out lollipops and good will. It was created the same as every other emipre, through pilage and slaughter. If that does not sit well with you, well I'm sorry, but its fact.
No Michael it is not a fact it is a myth
DeleteWhat part of my previous message is a myth? That Putin compared Stalin to Cromwell because they were both butchers? That atrocities weren’t committed in India in the name of the British Empire? Or that empires aren't built through pillage and slaughter?
DeleteDespite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, you seem to believe that Cromwell was some sort of saint and that somehow history has made him out to be a bad man due to lies told by a priest. The book that you are basing your opinion on Crowell on didn’t stay in publication for very long (I wonder why?) Was written by a man who apparently has no concept of grammar. Was published by a company who seemingly can’t afford to hire proof readers. And is based on a university thesis written by someone on the other side of the planet.
Even this book that you use to justify your opinion of Cromwell depicts how he sold Irish people into slavery in America. Slavery in my humble opinion is even worse than murder.
Here is a quote from a review of the book written by an English doctor on Amazon;
“… And I wish I could say it's worth the effort, but McKeiver is an unapologetic apologist for Cromwell, who was apparently a very nice guy who never did much wrong to the Irish. There is some attempt to justify this historically, and the book appears to be based on an MA thesis from an Australian university, but it is not presented in a manner which leads you to believe that the arguments are being weighed and a decision made on the basis of those arguments. Rather it seems that McKeiver is determined to prove what a great bloke Cromwell was, and goes all out to defend him at every turn.
Cromwell's Irish campaigns deserve better coverage than they get - I never heard of them when I did history at school, but then the English education system also omits, by and large, to look at the involvement of the Normans, Elizabethans, or any of our later mistreatments of the Irish. But if you want to find out about what happened in Ireland around and after the time of the English Civil War there are better books than this.”
http://www.amazon.co.uk/review/R14USGYBXGWGDA/ref=cm_cr_pr_cmt/278-1165412-5190430?ie=UTF8&ASIN=095546630X&linkCode=&nodeID=&tag=#wasThisHelpful
Here is a brief article about Cromwell in Ireland produced by Trinity College Dublin;
http://downsurvey.tcd.ie/history.html
Finally, here are links to a 2 part documentary produced by The History Channel called Cromwell, God’s Executioner, which separates the myths from the truth and where the myths came from. If you take the trouble to watch this, you will see atrocities were committed by all sides. But Cromwell was responsible for far more deaths than anyone else. If you can’t be bothered watching the whole documentary, I’d suggest that you at least skip to 30.55 on the first part where Cromwells own account of the Siege of Drogheda describes the deaths of thousands of innocent people at his hands.
I fear though that I’m wasting my time trying to correct your opinion of Cromwell. I don’t think you will change your mind no matter what evidence is put before you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnPQa0PZEG4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls394vFqPMg
“The striking differences between Oliver Cromwell and Joe Stalin (let alone the other Socialists like Lenin and Mao Tse Tung), is the fact that our devout evangelical Christian, Oliver Cromwell, not only refused the Crown of England which he was repeatedly offered, but also did not carry out mass murders and terror tactics unlike the 20th Century’s genocidal, Communist mass murderers.”
ReplyDeleteYou are obviously an ignoramus who knows nothing about Cromwell. Cromwell is still loathed in Ireland 400 years later. He was a murdering bastard comparable to a Hitler of his day, who ruthlessly slaughtered tens of thousands of innocent men women and children in Ireland. Or perhaps you think those people don’t count as they weren’t English? You have some bloody nerve.
See my comment above and read some actual history not just myths
Delete