The Flag Institute (whose website is here >>> http://www.flaginstitute.org/wp/) has published this survey:-
Scottish Independence: The future of the Union Flag
The Scottish Government intends to hold a referendum of the Scottish electorate, on the issue of independence from the United Kingdom, on Thursday 18 September 2014. The question asked in the referendum will be "Should Scotland be an independent country?"The Flag Institute is the UK's National Flag Charity. We're interested in your views on how you think a successful independence vote could (and should) affect the flag of the United Kingdom.
1. If Scotland becomes independent, do you think the Union Flag will or will not change?
2. If Scotland becomes independent, do you think the Union Flag should or should not change?
3. What arguments are there for changing the Union Flag following independence? (even if these are not arguments you support)
4. What arguments are there against changing the Union Flag following independence? (even if these are not arguments you support)
5. Not including the existing Union Flag pattern, what new designs do you feel might be worthy of consideration for a post Scottish-independence UK?
6. The current Union Flag is made up of the crosses of St George (England), St Andrew (Scotland), and St Patrick (Northern Ireland). Wales is not independently recognised in the current design of the flag.
If the Union Flag did change as a result of Scottish independence, should the new design include an element which represents Wales? Please explain your choice.
7. Who should decide IF the flag of the United Kingdom should change following Scottish independence.
The UK Government
The Royal Household
The UK Government and the Royal Household together
Citizens of the United Kingdom in a referendum
Other
8. If the decision was made to change the flag of the United Kingdom following Scottish independence, what combination of organisations and methods should be used to best choose the new design? Please choose as many or as few as you wish, or add your own suggestion.
The UK Government
The Royal Household, via the College of Arms
The Flag Institute, operating a public design competition
The Welsh Government
Governments of Commonwealth nations whose flags still include the current Union Flag design
Religious organisations
Other
I have written this to them. What do you think?
Dear Sir,
RE:- Survey : Questions
Scottish Independence: The future of the Union Flag
I was interested to see your above survey but it is unfortunate that you seem to be confused over the legal basis of the Union of the United Kingdom of Great Britain - which, with the greatest of respect to your organisation, shows that you may have been badly briefed by someone who must be ignorant of the relevant basic constitutional legal concepts.
No sensible lawyer would agree that, if Scotland leaves the UK, the "rest of the United Kingdom of Great Britain" is thereafter a concept which continues to have any legal meaning. The words of the Act of Union 1707 are too clear to admit of that interpretation.
Here are the words of the Act of Union:-
"ARTICLE 1
THAT THE TWO Kingdoms of England and Scotland shall upon the first Day of May which shall be in the Year one thousand seven hundred and seven, and for ever after, be united into one Kingdom by the name of Great Britain;
ARTICLE III
That the United Kingdom of Great Britain be represented by one and the same Parliament, to be stiled, The Parliament of Great Britain."
It follows that there will be no automatic UK flag and that if there isn't fundamental constitutional legislation to preserve some aspects of the Union that the flags will be those of the constituent nations of the UK eg England with the Cross of St George!
Yours faithfully
Robin Tilbrook
Chairman
The English Democrats
Hopefully, there will be no need for a Union flag because there will no longer be a Union. It would be nice to have St Edmund back as our patron saint. Archbishop Runcey has predicted that Christianity will be gone here within a generation. The future is Afro-asian and muslim, unless there is an almighty backlash, which is probably just now beginning.
ReplyDeleteSorry, written in haste and I somehow conflated Archbishops Runcie and Carey. Runcie is a blast from the past. I did, of course, mean George Carey.
DeleteReference to "the Rest of the U.K." in the context of Scotland's exit is fairly universal. British politicians do it, the B.B.C. does it. Alex Salmond, before his party took over up there, used to say "Independence for Scotland will mean independence for England," presumably to try to sell the idea south of the border. Not any more! He now refers to "the remaining components of these islands." So now, we're not a nation at all - we're just a "component"!
ReplyDeleteI still go with independence for Scotland meaning independence for England. Here's to a "Yes" vote!
Clive,
Weston-super-Mare
The Union Flag is a Royal Banner and is NOT the flag of any Country. As the Queen will remain Queen of Scots after independence the Royal Banner will remain as is. The UK or "Britain" is not a country and has no official flag as far as I'm aware. Once the Treaty is dissolved there is no UK.
ReplyDeleteSo conflating the Union of Crowns (1603) with the Union of Parliaments (1707) is a mistake.
As you are implicitly discussing the Act of Union I thought you might be interested in the relevant text of it which is as follows:-
Delete"ARTICLE 1
THAT THE TWO Kingdoms of England and Scotland shall upon the first Day of May which shall be in the Year one thousand seven hundred and seven, and for ever after, be united into one Kingdom by the name of Great Britain;
ARTICLE III
That the United Kingdom of Great Britain be represented by one and the same Parliament, to be stiled, The Parliament of Great Britain.
The Union jack is not a royal flag, but the flag of the Union. A new flag would have to be designed if Scotland votes 'yes'.
Delete'The Agenda' on ITV has just had an entirely unionist discussion on Scottish independence with no balancing argument . The panel, except Michael Gove, seemed to have no concept that England does not need Scotland for its survival. Interestingly an 'and finally... topic for discussion was the choices of Ed Miliband on Desert Island Discs. I was amused to learn that 'Jerusalem' had been selected by Comrade Miliband. Clearly this decision was the result of intense politicking by the PR men at Millbank in order to buff the English and Proud credentials of Ed. It is instructive how the regionalisation narrative and the selection of our most English of hymns are within the compass of the Labour party and its leader at the same time.
ReplyDeleteThere is fear and loathing oozing from the establishment and Labour in particular.
It also crossed my mind, as the panel considered the Scottish independence referendum, that in addition to ending the union and leaving England free from her chains, it would also require the dissolution of the British Broadcasting Corporation too.
Oh happy day if Scotland votes yes!
Glad I didn't bother to spoil my Sunday lunch by listening to Ed the Red on Desert Island Discs. I wonder what Roy Plomley would have thought of him. For a start we know that Ed is a Marxist Atheist, not even a regular at his local synogogue so it could have had no religious significance. I can only assume that Jerusalem for him could be viewed as a socialist anthem inasmuch as it speaks of rescuing people from those dark satanic mills and creating a more equal society. If that were the case then why mention Christ's supposed visit to Glastonbury? From a Christian point of view Jerusalem is about creating the Kingdom of Heaven on earth and not about the socialist international which, of course, is Ed's agenda. If you are not tied to the soil of England through generations of your ancestors buried in its earth, which is the case for Ed and a non-believer then it must be difficult to view Jerusalem an other than in a socialist context. How can it be love of country for him as he is determined to change the country into something it has never been nor never hoped to be.
DeleteI have been thinking again about ditching St George in favour of St Edmund. This would have its advantages as it would mean that our patron saint is wholly English and not a foreign import, avoid criticism that he will always be associated with the crusades which was the attempt to avoid the extinction of Christianity at the hands of Islam in the Holy Land but which is now viewed through the Marxist perspective as Christians being nasty to muslims; and of course the crusades were primarily a French and Norman undertaking, more Norman freebooting like the British Empire and nothing to do with the English at all. By the way, Putin has met the Pope and they are worried about the final extinction of Christianity in the once wholly Christian Middle East. Not a word from Hollande or Cameron or other European leaders of the so-called Christian west. They are too worried about upsetting the muslims in their midst.
And finally the New Roman Empire which is the EU is determined to dump thousands of Romanians on us who will get all their benefits whether we want it or not. They say it will boost our economy, whilst our taxes are paying our own to live on benefits. Like all empires, including the British, if the locals won't work for what is on offer you bring in indentured labour.
St George is the patron saint of Moscow and he is venerated by Muslims.
DeleteIf Scotland does vote 'yes', it is very likely that the rump state will continue to be known as the United Kingdom - the United Kingdom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland, unless Northern Ireland is divided between Scotland and Ireland
DeleteMeanwhile on Borgen on BBC4 the problems of Denmark and immigration rumble on and on. The Danes are certainly more hard -headed than we are and determined to preserve their identity. We just crumble at the first cry of racism and are consumed with guilt . The new party founded by Borgen came unstuck last week as they wanted to choose a Pakistani lady as their spokesman on integration. She said she would say that she would choose very carefully who is allowed in from Pakstan and would keep some of her own relatives out. She said that Pakistan was still in the Middle Ages and most of its citizens could not fit in in an advanced country like Denmark. Needless to say she was not given the job. Her potential employers were shocked by her "extremism". The truth is the first victim of the Marxist/ Monetarist war on the indigenous peopls of Europe.
ReplyDeletePerhaps the Dano-English of the Danelaw will give the Anglo-Saxon English of the South some backbone.
DeleteAlarm all round - school children are raping and sexually assaulting each other. Is it any wonder that immigrants carry on as they would in there home countries?
DeleteI suspect that line is to deflect rom the now standard but ignored truth that Muslim gangs target predominantly white Christian and Sikh girls as acts of racial and religious hatred, because after all we are only cattle.It makes our police feel better.
DeleteAccording to Rape.co.za, it’s estimated that women born in South Africa have more chance of being raped than learning how to read. The site also quotes a survey that was conducted amongst 1,500 Sowetan school children, in which it was discovered that a quarter of all boys said that “jackrolling” (their lingo for gang rape) was “fun”. The devastating stats continue – a quarter of South African men who took part in a survey by the Medical Research Council (MRC) admitted to raping someone, it’s estimated that half a million rapes are committed each year in SA. A study by Interpol (the international police agency) shows that South Africa has the highest rate of [recorded] rape in the world. A woman is raped in South Africa every 17 seconds. The highest increase in attacks has been against children under the age of seven, largely due to the myth that sexual intercourse with a virgin will cure a man of HIV or AIDS. - See more at: http://www.sapeople.com/2011/03/28/south-african-rape-statistics/#sthash.b7qi0xA6.dpuf
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